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Kaip vertintumete "galvos persodinimo" operacijas?
Puiku, tai būdas pratęsti gyvenimą, jei kūnas nebepataisomai sužalotas. 46%  46%  [ 11 ]
Nieko gera, nes tuo gali imti piktnaudžiauti - tiesiog pasikeisti pasenusį, negražų ar atsibodusį kūną. 8%  8%  [ 2 ]
Prisiūkite mano kūnui protingą galvą. 8%  8%  [ 2 ]
Duokite mano protingai galvai geresnį kūną. 29%  29%  [ 7 ]
Kita. 8%  8%  [ 2 ]
Total votes: 24
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PostPosted: 2007-01-06 21:11 
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Visai neseniai BBC ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6211845.stm ) idejo i savo saita nuotrauka moters, kuri priesh 28 metus sprogimo laboratorijoje metu neteko abieju ranku - nuotraukoje ji jas jau turi. Tiesa, ne nuosavas, o transplantuotas ( operacija truko 10 valandu).
Tokios operacijos pradetos daryti 2000-aisias ir ju dar nedaug - kol kas tik 6, tachiau...

Tachiau... greichiausiai artejame link to, kad neurochirurgija pasieks toki lygi, jog taps imanomos net tokios operacijos, kokia seniai seniai aprashe rusu fantastas Beliajevas savo knygoje "Profesoriaus Dovelio galva" - galvos "persodinimas" kitam kunui... ar kuno "persodinimas" kitai galvai (zhiurint, kaip vertinsi...) :wink:
(Atrodo, yra ir filmas pagal ta knyga.)

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PostPosted: 2007-01-06 21:28 
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Is principo su galvos persodinimu, o tiksliau smegenu išsaugojimu naujame kune, atsiveria ilgesnio gyvenimo galimybe, (kuria tikriausiai gautų turtingieji, gal ir nelegaliomis priemonemis), bei labiau... hm... moraliskesnis panaudojimas:

tarkime yra mokslininkas, kuris jau nebepaeina, bet stovi prie isradimo ribos ir yra mirties bausme kazkokiam tarkime Džonui Smitui, tai gal tam mokslininkui geriau butų jeigu jo galva gyventų ant Džono Smito, o Džono Smito galvai butų įvykdytas nuosprendis?

:wink:

Bet problemų irgi daug atsirastų. Kokia sena milijonierė keistų kūnus kas metus...
Šūdas tiem kurių galvą turi nuimti prieš atimant jo kūną.

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 Post subject: mhm
PostPosted: 2007-01-06 21:32 
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XXIcentury wrote:
tarkime yra mokslininkas, kuris jau nebepaeina, bet stovi prie isradimo ribos ir yra mirties bausme kazkokiam tarkime Džonui Smitui, tai gal tam mokslininkui geriau butų jeigu jo galva gyventų ant Džono Smito, o Džono Smito galvai butų įvykdytas nuosprendis?
Ash ish kart prisiminiau Stephen Hawking :|

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PostPosted: 2007-01-07 0:24 
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Akela wrote:
Tachiau... greichiausiai artejame link to, kad neurochirurgija pasieks toki lygi, jog taps imanomos net tokios operacijos... - galvos "persodinimas" kitam kunui... ar kuno "persodinimas" kitai galvai
greiciausiai neartejame.
labai tingiu aiskinti kodel, nes bus trys puslapiai niekam nesuprantamo teksto.
butent neurochirurginiu poziuriu ranku persodinimas nera kazkas ypatingo, pora susiutu periferiniu nervu (operacija tai sudetinga, bet ne is sio kampo:)).

nugaros smegenu siuvimas yra visiskai skirtingas dalykas ir siuo metu nelabai imanomas. objekto struktura labai jau skiriasi, branduoliai ten visokie nemielinizuotos skaidulos.
lameriskais teiginiais periferinis nervas tai lyg kas butu nupjoves peles laida, o nugaros smegenys tai jau kirviu per motinine plokste jei ne per procesoriu...

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PostPosted: 2007-01-07 1:26 
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sorlac wrote:
greiciausiai neartejame.
...
Na, profas sako, profas zhino (padare ispudi tas "labai tingiu aiskinti kodel, nes bus trys puslapiai niekam nesuprantamo teksto") :nuobodu:
Wikipedijoj lyg ir palikta viltis, kad ateity tai bus imanoma, tachiau informacija nepilna (be citatos) ir galbut neprofesionali :( .
Quote:
The majority of neurosurgeons believe that head transplantation in humans will be possible in the near future.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_transplant

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PostPosted: 2007-01-07 3:00 
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is to pacio linko:
Since the technology required to reattach a severed spinal cord has not yet been developed, the subject of a head transplant would be a quadriplegic.

jei buvo turima omeny mastanciu darzoviu gamyba tai labai atsiprasau, toks variantas labai net imanomas tik ka jis bendro turi su nuorochirurgija?

o man ka pradet apie perineurines siules ir stuburo smegenu sandara ir dar su citatom?

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 Post subject: hmmm
PostPosted: 2007-01-07 3:09 
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sorlac wrote:
...o man ka pradet apie perineurines siules ir stuburo smegenu sandara ir dar su citatom?
Nereikia, jei ne - tai ne.
Beje, tai vienareikshmishkas atsakymas imtinai ir "distant future" ?

O del :
sorlac wrote:
jei buvo turima omeny mastanciu darzoviu gamyba tai labai atsiprasau, toks variantas labai net imanomas tik ka jis bendro turi su nuorochirurgija?
Tai gal buvo turima omeny kai kas kita, nes "darzhoves" lygmeny bezhdzhionei galva persodinta 2001 gi.
Quote:
Professor Robert White, from Cleveland Ohio, transplanted a whole monkey's head onto another monkey's body, and the animal survived for some time after the operation.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1263758.stm

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 Post subject: ir dar apie profesoriu
PostPosted: 2007-01-07 3:48 
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Sakykim, kad profesorius Robert White yra fantastas, nes jis:
Quote:
The idea that a human brain could be transplanted from one body to another body may sound straight out of Frankenstein. But Dr Robert White, Professor of Neurosurgery at Case Western Reserve University in Ohio, believes such operations may be possible one day in the not too distant future. Here he explains why: ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/repor ... rain.shtml

Papildau------------------------------------------------------

Dar radau smagu pamastyma (naudojant pc terminologija) vienam forume - kaip tai sunku ir problematishka:
Quote:
This seems quite odd, when I think of this.. I tend to think of it through the following analogy...

If you take the hard drive (the brain in this example) of your computer in it's current state, properly install it on another keyboard with different specifications (different motherboard, video card, etc.), there would be a lot of confusion with the "brain" (the hard drive in this case) of the computer.

If a brain transplant were theoretically possible, that is to implant a brain into another body, wouldn't the brain simply malfunction because it is now controlling the processes of a body it is completely unfamiliar with?

Now I know it is very very very unlikely for brain transplants to ever occur, it's sorta entertaining/intriguing to simply think about it. :)


well seeming as how ive actually done that with lots of hard drives and systems before, i can positively assure you it is possible, except with windows xp. windows xp simply detects a new system and wont even try to boot up because it thinks it is just a copy of itself and so it must be illegal. at any rate, all previous versions would work. if you have a special part, you may need to update some drivers, but still... and the core operation of the computer has nothing to do with the harddrive, but rather the bios and cmos that is only on the motherboard......
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive ... 89017.html
(Tam mediku forume visa gija tam paskirta - visokiu pamastymu yra, jei kam idomu :wink: )

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 Post subject: jee
PostPosted: 2007-01-07 5:26 
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Ek, isiskaichiau :lol:
Personaliai sorlac'ui - ka manai apie shita sena sena fantasta :wink: ?
Quote:
Equipping old minds with new bodies--whether
you call it head transplantation or body transplantation--is
not outside science's ken. How would it work?
By Robert J. White


My colleagues and I have already taken the first steps toward human head transplantation.
Livers, lungs, hearts, kidneys...and, most recently, hands. With such rapid advances in the field of human transplantation, researchers such as myself are now beginning to consider what some have previously deemed unthinkable: transplanting a human brain.
I predict that what has always been the stuff of science fiction--the Frankenstein legend, in which an entire human being is constructed by sewing various body parts together--will become a clinical reality early in the 21st century. Our modern-day version of the tale will include the transplantation of the human brain with all its complexity preserved. But the brain can't function properly without the plumbing of the body and the wiring of the head. So brain transplantation, at least initially, will really be head transplantation--or body transplantation, depending on your perspective.....
....
Author
ROBERT J. WHITE is professor of neurosurgery at Case Western Reserve University. He prefers his own head (brain) for now.
http://www.langues-vivantes.u-bordeaux2 ... lant2r.htm

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PostPosted: 2007-01-07 10:06 
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jei taip norisi galim panagrinet tuos linkus:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1263758.stm:
aiski kito nuomuone:

It's not connected in any nervous sense

It's a mystification to call it either a head transplant or a brain transplant.

I cannot see that scientifically you would actually be able to regenerate the nerves which could produce that sort of control.

teoriskai as tikiu, kad imanomas kompiuterinis interfeisas nuskaitantis proximalinio galo signalus ir perduodantis i distalini.

realiai iss ito poksto egzistuoja tik dalinis nuskaitymas. lyg tai naudojamas kai kuriuose mechaniniuose ranku protezuose, bet kai pamaciau filmuka kaip jie veikia... juoko buvo pusei valandos. gaila internete sito gerio neaptikau.

kaip ten lieka nedegenerave distaliniai kylanciu ir nusileidzianciu nerviniu pluostu galai as neisivaizduoju. to be determined by future.

pasak wikipedijos tas pats white'as bezdzionio galvas persodino dar 1970. palyginus aprasymus realaus progreso nesimato. 30+ metu artejimo...

is praktines puses isvaizduokim kaip gaut donoro sutikima:) seima gi gales laidoti tik galva. susitaupo lesos karstui vienok.


http://www.langues-vivantes.u-bordeaux2 ... lant2r.htm:

Although transferring a paralyzed person's head to another body would not--at least at this point in the development of the technology--allow them to move or walk again

situacija kaip as ir maniau yra kiek blogesne nei quadraplegia:

is to pacio pamisusio profesoriaus guid'o smegenu tranplantacijoms
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/repor ... transplant


Also this patient will require permanent respiratory support and artificial feeding.

They can be instrumented for speech.

spekuliacijos apie paralyzuotu gelbejima is vis juokingos.

principinis klausimas - o kam pesodineti visa kuna?

dabartiniais laikais cirkuliacijos sistemos vystosi pakankamai sparciai.
dirbtines sirdys... mobilios cirkuliacijos sistemos palaikancios donorines sirdies cirkuliacija 24+ valandas eksperimetinese salygose.
taip, kad Douelio variantas techniskai beveik imanomas.
dar prijungiam koki nors mobiluma garantuojanti interfeisa valdoma pagal nuskaitomus nervinius signalus ir leidziam galvai priprasti juo naudotis.

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